One-on-One With Karl Vaters On ‘Small Church Essentials’

Today, I’m happy to welcome Karl Vaters to The Exchange. Karl has been a small church pastor for 30 years and currently leads Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Fountain Valley, California. BY ED STETZERHe writes about the value and needs of small churches for Christianity Today and is the founder of www.NewSmallChurch.com, a blog that encourages, connects, and equips innovative small church pastors. Below I talk to him about his new book, Small Church Essentials.Ed: How did you come to write Small Church Essentials?Karl: Small churches are, by far, the most common expression of the gathered body of Christ. But they are highly undervalued and grossly under-resourced. I know because I’ve been pastoring in small churches for most of my ministry, including the small church I’ve been at for the last 25 years.Despite the fact that we’re a healthy, vibrant, worshipping, missional church in very populated area, we’ve remained small.That so-called ‘failure’ caused so much frustration and discouragement that I almost left the pastoral ministry. Then, a friend and counselor encouraged me to find ways of measuring church effectiveness beyond the numbers. That led me to write my first book, The Grasshopper Myth.As I’ve continued to study, write, speak, and have conversations with thousands of fellow small church pastors, I’ve gained a deeper understanding of how to do effective ministry within a small church context. The lessons from those interactions and my own experiences are the heartbeat of Small Church Essentials.Ed: Why do you think it is so common for people to equate the size of a church with its level of health? Or as you put it, to filter everything through the “church growth lens.”Karl: I think it’s based on some understandable, but faulty logic—namely, a healthy church will be fulfilling the Great Commission, which means it will grow numerically. That’s a reasonable theory. But any theory needs to be tested against reality. And when we do that, we discover that there are many churches who are fulfilling their role in the Great Commission without getting bigger for a wide variety of reasons.Ed: How do you help pastors to shift their thinking from focusing on their church size to focusing on the health of their church?Karl: Many pastors have given up in frustration after chasing the elusive goal of numerical success. But they’re not lazy. They just haven’t been given an alternative way of measuring success in ministry.When they hear that numerical increase is not the only measure of health and effectiveness, they want to learn more and they’re thrilled to make that shift.

If you’re not sure if your motivations are based on numbers rather than health and effectiveness, consider this question: If you knew that what your church is doing would bless people and grow the kingdom of God even though it wouldn’t put more people in your church, would you still do it? If so, the motivation is probably health, not numbers. If not…Ed: Why is this book important for large church pastors?Karl: When I started this ministry, I had three goals: (1) to encourage small church pastors, (2) to put resources into their hands, and (3) to mainstream this message to the broader church leadership community.Large churches are great! Most small church leaders want to work with our big church counterparts. But small churches and their leaders often feel isolated and ignored. It’s important for pastors of large churches not to forget what most of their peers are dealing with and to understand the differences in how small churches and big churches function. We can’t help them if we don’t understand their circumstances and their needs.Ed: Will this encourage small church pastors?Karl: I hope so. For too many years small church pastors have been treated more like we’re a problem to be fixed than an essential element of God’s overall strategy. It’s hard to feel encouraged with that drumbeat in the background.Small Church Essentials is not about complaining or offering excuses. It’s about encouraging small churches to lean into our strengths for the advancement of Christ’s mission on earth. It’s debilitating when people insist that small churches must get bigger before we can be of value. My hope is that every church of every size will feel valued, encouraged and challenged to step up—not at some point in the future when we get bigger, but right here, right now at our current size.Ed: What is unique and necessary about the small church perspective?Karl: Small churches constitute 90 percent of congregations and half the body of Christ. The fact that we’ve spent so little time considering their needs and underutilizing their strengths is scandalous.We need small churches simply because there are a lot of people who worship, serve, learn, and minister better in a small church context than a big one. As Rick Warren says, “We need all kinds of church to reach all kinds of people.” And that includes all sizes. Big and small.Ed: Why have you stopped using the term “church growth?”Karl: The Church Growth Movement has been an extraordinary blessing to the church. It has renewed an emphasis on outreach, church planting, the value of using accurate metrics, and so much more.But every good thing has unintended consequences. One of the unintended consequences of the church growth movement is that it’s made us over-reliant on numbers as not just one factor in determining church growth and health, but often the only factor.Instead of striving for church growth, I encourage churches and pastors to work on increasing their capacity for effective ministry. Being effective is a better goal than getting bigger.Ed: Can you share some stories of applying these Small Church Essentials in the church that you pastor?Karl: Several years ago, I told our church staff, “We have to stop thinking like a big church, because we’re not one.” Instead, we need to do ministry that’s appropriate for the size we are now, while developing systems for a church twice our size. Since doing that we’ve had a healthier church doing more effective ministry. It’s also helped us to renew our focus on the biblical command (I like to call it the “Pastoral Prime Directive”) of equipping the saints to do the work of ministry (Eph. 4:11-12).An equipping church is an effective church, and that’s what we’re always striving to be.Ed Stetzer holds the Billy Graham Distinguished Chair of Church, Mission, and Evangelism at Wheaton College, is executive director of the Billy Graham Center, and publishes church leadership resources through Mission Group.This article was republished with permission and originally appeared here.

Dignity Answer To Racially Charged Times; Civil Rights Leader at Saddleback

LOS ANGELES — Pastor Rick Warren countered the nation’s racially charged times that led to troubling events in 2017 by opening up the first church services of the new year at Saddleback with author and civil rights activist John Perkins center stage talking about dignity.“Mankind was created to bare the image of God. Dignity reflects the soul; that dignity that God gave you. You don’t give dignity, you affirm it,” said Perkins while being interviewed by Warren during his message, “Loving Like Jesus in a Fractured World.”In his announcement about Perkins’ visit earlier in the week, Warren stated that he asked him to join him at Saddleback in response to “so many sad flashpoints in 2017” and to help him talk “about the Christ-like response to violence, injustice, racism, and poverty.”Introducing Perkins during the first of four weekend services at Saddleback in Lake Forest on Saturday, Warren said, “You may have never heard of his name, but in Christianity he’s a giant. He’s right up there with Martin Luther King Jr. and a couple of others who talked about dignity and unity and love and forgiveness and reconciliation.”Perkins, 87, is an American Christian minister, civil rights activist, Bible teacher, author, philosopher and community developer, according to Wikipedia. Despite being a 3rd grade dropout, Perkins is recognized for his work with 14 honorary doctorate degrees from schools including Belhaven University, Lynchburg University, Wheaton College, Gordon College, Taylor University, and Northern Seminary. He has served on the Boards of Directors of World Vision and Prison Fellowship.“If you don’t affirm people’s dignity you are going to have these uprisings all the time because dignity cries out,” said Perkins at Saddleback. “We’ve wrapped ourselves around our own political social idea and we’ve become that and [the attitude that] ‘if you don’t believe in that like I do we got trouble.’ It used to be that people wouldn’t love you, but they would get along with you. We called that tolerance, but now if I don’t fit into your socio-economic political deal you don’t like me. It’s hard to speak through that. We have to affirm that dignity.”He added, “What we are doing is demonizing each other instead of embracing each other. Justice is a stewardship issue. Justice is how we steward God’s creation. We have to deal with the whole idea of the dignity of humanity.”

COMING EVENT: Dr. Martin Luther King Gathering – How Have We Advanced the Dream?

Perkins shared that churches in America have a troubled history.“The church accommodating racism was a huge mistake,” he said. Perkins believes that the current social unrest is really “an opportune moment” for Christians. “I think we should be looking at this as an opportunity,” he said.“There should be one place in the world where people actually get along together. It’s called the Church,” said Warren in agreement with Perkin’s sentiments. “If we are not helping people reconcile, we’re not the church. If we’re not helping people reconcile between each other, we’re not children of God.”Perkins, who implied that the Black Lives Matter movement has led to further division in the country, said there is “only one race, the human race.”“Reconciliation is not just an event, it’s alive. Reconciliation is ongoing, it's a never ending ministry,” he said.

Saddleback Church Service 'Loving Jesus in a Fractured World;' Warren/Perkins [FACEBOOK VIDEO]

If We're More American Than Christian We're Compromised, Says 'Jesus Untangled' Author

As the Church has become increasingly entangled in the pursuit of politics, the Gospel has become tarnished and often abandoned as the primary focus of the Body of Christ. — From Jesus Untangled — Crucifying Our Politics to Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb back coverJesus Untangled author Keith Giles recently shared with Together LA that unity in the Church in Los Angeles is more critical than even other big cities simply because of "the breadth of diversity and the collision of cultures that are represented." He makes the case that his book is a "prophetic call for the Church to awaken from the 'American Dream' and to return to Her first love."Our interview (transcript below) with Giles drew some rather pointed answers from him about the state of affairs for Christians and their politics today.Together LA: What parts of your book address unity?Keith Giles: The entire theme of the book is about the dangers of putting politics at the center of our faith; whether as individuals or as the church. Unity itself isn’t the goal. It’s the byproduct of placing Jesus at the center and following Him. The book certainly does examine how divisive politics can be to the Body of Christ, so as we untangle our faith and crucify our politics, we begin to see our brothers and sisters as they truly are, without seeing them through a political filter.One reason we need to untangle our faith from politics is that if we are more “American” than “Christian” then we’ve become compromised by our nationality. AS I point out in the book: You can’t convert a culture if that culture has already converted you. We need to abandon our politics and seek first the Kingdom of God.TLA: A lot of people place much of their focus on political solutions to issues of social injustice. I know your book addresses this head-on. What would you say to these people in a nutshell?Giles: First of all, there’s big difference between politics and justice. In the book I point out that people like MLK and William Wilberforce weren’t practicing the same sort of politics we’re being pulled into today. MLK and Wilberforce both fought for the rights of the oppressed. They weren’t looking to pass laws that gave their party a political advantage over others. They were both willing to lay their own lives on the line to see justice done. Wilberforce even wrote a book where he urged Christians not to become entangled with politics but to transform the culture with the Gospel, which is really what Jesus told us to do in the first place. In fact, it’s really the only way to bring transformation into our world. Politics can’t change hearts, only Jesus can do that.TLA: How is Jesus Untangled pertinent to people living in Los Angeles or any other metropolis?Giles: I think unity is more critical in a place like LA, just because the breadth of diversity and the collision of cultures that are represented. More than, say any another large city like Houston or Nashville for example.For Christians, unity is extremely important – or at least it should be. Because, Jesus said our unity would be a sign that everyone would know that He was the Messiah who was sent by the Father. If we are divided politically (or any other way) we’re denying that Jesus is who He says He is.TLA: What needs to be done as Christians and as a Christian community to advance this idea of unity in the Church (with a capital "C")?Giles: We have to find what unites us and focus on that as much as possible. According to the New Testament, our unity is only found in Christ.Paul says, “For we all are one in Christ Jesus our Lord” [Gal. 3:28]. Notice he doesn’t say “we are all one in our doctrines”, or “our opinions” or “our political views”. In those things all we have is division. But if we remain in Christ, then we experience unity.So, whenever Christians argue about politics or divide over political views, it’s because they’ve allowed something else to eclipse Jesus in their heart.As I point out in my book, “What do you get when you mix religion and politics? You get politics.”People in first century Corinth had a similar problem. They were dividing over which Apostle was their favorite and Paul rebuked them for that. Yet today Christians feel it’s ok to divide over their favorite political candidate or party. That’s in violation of what Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians.TLA: What do pastors and churches (small "c") need to do for unity in the city?Giles: Whenever we make anything other than Jesus our center, we have division in the church, and between churches. So, if within a local church our center is an issue or a doctrine, then we will experience division. If between churches the focus is anything other than Jesus, then we will experience division.TLA: What obstacles are there to unity?Giles: I think what many fail to realize is that politics is another form of tribalism. This creates an “us vs them” mentality where we spend our time and energy searching for everything that is wrong about “them” and right about “us”. We lump everyone who is not in our tribe into a single amorphous collective where “all Liberals are stupid” or “all Conservatives are racist”, when this is certainly not the case. But the more we demonize “them” the more we can justify almost anything we say or do because, hey, look how evil they are! Soon, we start to believe that they are beyond redemption. Which, of course, is exactly the opposite of what the Gospel teaches us.